Image by Ahamedia
On today’s agenda at City Hall sits a proposal to increase the maximum fines on 42 city by-laws by a factor of five. Among the changes are measures to levy $10,000 fines on low-income people for sleeping outside, jaywalking, and engaging in “illegal” street vending of recycled wares, a crime councillor Kerry Jang recently called “unacceptable behavior.” A homeless person in Vancouver already gets a minimum $1,000 fine for erecting a tent in public (under the illegal Structures By-law covered by The Mainlander here, here and here), but the new revisions propose extending that punitive logic to all aspects of daily life.
The report to city council states that both the ‘Street Vending’ and ‘Street and Traffic’ by-laws will have their upper limits increased from $2,000 to $10,000. Pivot legal society has noted in the Straight that people who are homeless cannot possibly afford to pay the previous fines, nevermind the new fines. The same is doubtless true of low-income street vendors selling recycled wares. With the city’s new measures, the poor can now be jailed for fifteen days for non-payment.
The City is asserting the importance of “compliance with the by-laws” at a time when the city’s homeless shelters are systematically turning away hundreds per night. Since the election of Gregor Robertson the homeless shelters have been over-capacity year (2012) after year (2011) after year (2010).
The City has completely ignored the effect that the fine increases will have on civil liberties or on the poor, as also noted by Pivot: “the failure to recognize that homeless and low-income people are caught under these bylaws – whether intentionally or not – demonstrates a lack of compassion and accommodation for the City’s most marginalized communities.” The City’s staff report does not mention the Housing and Homelessness Strategy or other relevant policies. Instead, the recommendations are framed exclusively around corporate efficiency and urban livability. The proposal is backed up with recourse to the City’s Corporate Strategic Business Plan (2010-2020), which “provides effective regulatory services that make Vancouver a safe and liveable community for residents, businesses and visitors.”
The rationale for the fine increases was further explained to the media by councilor Geoff Meggs, who said that city by-laws continue to be violated because the fines are simply too low, “currently there is no deterrent.” (Meggs is the same councillor who last week declared that yarn bombing should “die” because it makes trees “look homeless”). So, it is because the fines are not high enough that people continue to buy and sell used goods in the streets, and that people are forced to sleep on the streets. By this logic, people eat at food banks only because food banks don’t charge higher prices for food.
Vision: policing the eastside
Instead of dealing with the root causes of poverty and homelessness, such as high rent, city hall has increasingly asked the police to manage the symptoms of inequality. When Vision released their Safe, Livable Neighbourhoods platform in 2011, they hinted that this would mean yet more funding for the police. This tone was already set in the previous elections of 2008. In the lead-up to the Olympics, the NPA gave the VPD more powers to prosecute the urban poor with the Safe Streets Act. Even though Vancouver had experienced a 9% decrease in the crime rate from 2007 to 2008, Gregor Robertson ran a series of negative campaign ads in the 2008 elections to portray crime as “skyrocketing” while attacking his opponents for not hiring extra police officers and for being soft on crime.
Once elected Vision followed through by hiring 100 extra police officers and clamping down on civil liberties. In 2008 the police were already absorbing $180m per year. Today, after four years of consecutive increases, total police expenditures are $213 million — more than 20% of the city’s budget. “Livable and Sustainable Neighborhoods” is another way of saying, “Unlivable and Policed Neighborhoods.”
The new laws reveal the true ideology of the “green” neoliberal city government. The promise to end homelessness by 2015 comes not so much out of compassion as from the marketing department of a real-estate firm. As the Downtown Eastside continues offering margins of profitability to Vision’s primary backers in the real-estate industry, the frontier of an eastward-moving gentrification boundary wants to continue its march. One major obstacle on that march is the DNC Street Market, a weekly institution on Carrall Street where poor people gather to sell used goods and personal belongings.
UPDATE Jan 16th: Public backlash caused the city to postpone discussion on fine increases for items relating to homelessness and street vending only minutes before the hearing was to begin yesterday Tues Jan 15th at 6pm (see Mainlander article here).
laurasecord
January 15, 2013 at 3:24 pm
are they out of their minds
somuchbetter
January 15, 2013 at 4:41 pm
yeah this makes a LOT of sense… just a way to get more tax dollars and fill up the jails.
Mark Macapinlac
January 15, 2013 at 4:53 pm
if they’re homeless, how do you expect them to pay such heavy fines? Why are you making the poor poorer? Why not start up government funded programs to actually get them a home?
Brianna Needoba
January 15, 2013 at 5:17 pm
how on earth do they expect a homeless person to pay this fine!???
Kit
January 15, 2013 at 5:17 pm
Perhaps they’ve been indulging in BC Bud?
Really, they’re all completely stupid, and don’t understand that the homeless generally don’t have the assets or money to pay fines (they’re homeless for a reason)
Or city hall is on some really, really good drugs.
Fraggle Rawk
January 15, 2013 at 5:44 pm
This makes me sick, way to go Vancouver. You put the ass in world class city.
Gerry Sizzla
January 15, 2013 at 6:28 pm
If ONLY spending money to help eradicate the causes of poverty was seen as worthwhile as it is spending money on punishing those living in poverty.
BeenThere
January 15, 2013 at 6:29 pm
This is disgusting! It shows a complete and utter disregard humanity. For disenfranchised, disabled, and addicted persons, such a by-law only serves to cripple them further. This is not “helping” anyone. Why assault persons who are already suffering? What purpose does it serve??? Despicable. I hope the karma bus hits you hard.
Meranda Dawn
January 15, 2013 at 6:39 pm
Are you kidding me?!?!!! what the hell is wrong with those people….
maxine
January 15, 2013 at 6:53 pm
As well, unpaid fines prevent a person from getting a driver’s license, among other things, therefore adding insult to injury when an individual is trying to escape poverty.
Shaun
January 15, 2013 at 7:47 pm
word up maxine…just continues the cycle…
Penny Stanley
January 15, 2013 at 8:50 pm
I’ve just moved here and thought things would improve over the homelessness numbers in Edmonton. I’m discouraged to find that city councils aim is to further punish and dehumanize those whom circumstances have made homeless. As soon as I am eligible to vote in this city I’m going do all I possibly can to make certain these are not returned to office.
Larry
January 15, 2013 at 9:35 pm
“With the city’s new measures, the poor can now be jailed for fifteen days for non-payment.” “The City is asserting the importance of “compliance with the by-laws” at a time when the city’s homeless shelters are systematically turning away hundreds per night.”
This sounds completely ridiculous but on the bright side Fifteen days in Jail is Fifteen days feed, lodged and don’t even have to worry about getting turned around at the door.
Christopher,McPartlin
January 15, 2013 at 9:38 pm
WTF…..just when I thought city hall couldn’t top themselves in the stupedity department they come out with this ,makes all the sense in the world giving the homeless a $1,000 fine, I can just see it now that ya they be paying the fine after making their morgage payments on their property that they own in English properties
Starshine
January 15, 2013 at 9:51 pm
I peed my pants and was fined
Greg
January 15, 2013 at 10:24 pm
I felt the uproar at first, but look at the agenda closely, along with the recommendations and specifically the Memorandumsubmitted from Iain Dixon. There has been a constitutional validity challenge issued to all bylaw amendments pertaining to the homeless (City Land Use, Street and Traffic, and Street Vending). Amendments for those three bylaws have been subsequently removed. Mission accomplished, for the time being.
Jordan
January 15, 2013 at 10:48 pm
Ending homelessness by what date again, Mayor Robertson?
Suck it
January 15, 2013 at 10:48 pm
You have to be kidding me….this fine system makes no sense at all. What do you plan in doing deducting the fines from they’re welfare cheques???
Mike C
January 15, 2013 at 11:07 pm
It’s a little early for April Fool’s, isn’t it?
Mona
January 15, 2013 at 11:09 pm
This is embarrassing. Why raise a fine for people who don’t have any money in the first place?! We should start helping them, not punishing them. Besides, this will only make them move to suburbs like North Vancouver. Don’t sweep this social welfare under the carpet. It’ll only make matters worse.
Ian
January 15, 2013 at 11:15 pm
In the end a society is judged by how it treats it’s less fortunate.
I believe the Charter of Rights has provisions in it to protect the poor and the homeless.Making the passing of this bylaw unconstitutional .These politicians need to be reminded that charity starts at home
C
January 15, 2013 at 11:17 pm
Just another waste of breath and trees. Did you even stop to think of how they will be able to get $10,000 in the first place? Maybe if you cut back on unnecessary police task forces that spend more money on burning fossil fuels in their fancy, new Dodge chargers running red lights with sirens or paying out unreasonable salaries to people who only waste the money on luxurious items that they barely use or treat like crap and have to replace continually, and just put that extra $100 million dollars into shelters and employment rehabilitation programs you wouldn’t need to pass such absurd laws. I happen to work in the DTES and everyday I go out there and watch these people trying to survive in an environment where there is no positive or progressive changes to help with the problems. The only reason people have their street market that “engages in illegal activity” is because they are actually trying to make some money. If you don’t have a home or some where to sleep and shower it is hard to find employment to pay for the home and place to sleep and shower, let alone pay $10,000 in fines for an unfortunate economic situation that you’re stuck in. Way to spend more money brushing the issues under the carpet instead of cleaning it up and creating a stable plan so the issue does not reoccur. Thumbs up to you small thinkers in council, you should receive a Darwin award.
Jodi
January 15, 2013 at 11:18 pm
Just keep kicking a man while he’s down & perpetuating the cycle of poverty / addiction / mental illness. It is hard enough for a middle class individual to come up with an extra $1000-$2000, for a small family that is a holiday. Never mind contemplating the sum of $10000. Our city servants need to get some humility & compassion
Chrystal Klassen
January 15, 2013 at 11:19 pm
This is so horrible!! Does the government not see that them living on the streets isn’t a privilege, that its hard enough getting through each day… What the hell is this world coming to and we know the truth that we obviously don’t have a supportive government… SICK!!!!
Kiklanisune
January 16, 2013 at 2:23 am
i was homeless down there a few years back. and I still bathed and showered. I just had nowhere to live. THERE WASNT ANYWHERE TO LIVE ON LOW INCOME! OH wait, unless i decided to be irresponsible and make babies while not even being able to house myself, so i then would qualify for low income housing…. wait what? Yea, I went there. And that was in the winter to boot. This is bs. Get your act together and start acting like human beings. Disgusting.
Danny Handelman
January 16, 2013 at 6:10 am
Poverty and homelessness would significantly decrease, and make “Vancouver a safe and liveable community for residents, businesses and visitors” if it became more profitable for builders to build upward rather than outward, through elimination of height and minimum setback restrictions, maximum automobile parking of 0, integration of residential and commercial use of land, decreasing development charges to 0 for infill and increased for low density and basing property taxes on the value of land alone rather than land and building. Prohibiting automobile traffic would have a far greater effect on improving safety than these by-laws, and these by-laws are an attempt by government to intervene in the marketplace and violating personal freedom, so “conservatives” should object.
Kat
January 16, 2013 at 6:19 am
Is this their idea of ending poverty? Putting poor people in jail? Disgusting.
Ian Dubelaar
January 16, 2013 at 9:12 am
Plainly they don’t want the homeless to be able to pay. They keep increasing the fine levels till they are unpayable, thus making homelessness a crime punishable by imprisonment. As part of the Master Plan, new prisons are being built as we write. Any questions?
Corrina
January 16, 2013 at 9:58 am
If only Gerry, but that would be a reasonable and compassionate thing to do, two qualities the Vancouver council is apparently without
Tony
January 16, 2013 at 12:05 pm
did everyone forget that Gordon Campbell did this for 2012 Olympics as well shipping the homeless out of the Vancouver area and giving them one way tickets to other parts of this Province. Seems like Vancouver City Counsel is showing how they are being resists towards the homeless . What about their Human Rights. Stat charging the Rich for being Rich and giving them 1 year in jail for being rich and make pay outrageous fines like you want the Homeless for fork over
Tony
January 16, 2013 at 12:06 pm
Racists
RobP
January 16, 2013 at 1:05 pm
“Homeless” isn’t a race
Lorna
January 16, 2013 at 1:07 pm
In this country, if a man has $10,000 for a fine to sleep out under the stars generally he wouldn’t do such a thing. He would likely rent an apartment. This is a ridiculous new fine. The fact that the city of Vancouver is trying to clean up their streets is great but by making this fine a great amount is unreal to the homeless who are yes on the street doing things that they shouldn’t, drugs, alcohol, even prostituting and drug pushing. To some degree it is their own fault that they are there but at the same time, how did they grow up? Who nurtured them? or didn’t? Sometimes its about the way they grew up and sometimes they were going to try it just once and got addicted. Either way they need help from the city of Vancouver. Vancouver needs more homeless shelters with properly paid employees and a medical professional on call. That would certainly cut down on homelessness.
Just a thought
Bill Hicks
January 16, 2013 at 2:21 pm
…If They Were ‘On BC Bud’ They Would NOT ‘Be Stupid’,They Would SEE How Asinine This Is,Totally And Completely… …For you to than turn around and blame ‘really good drugs’ for their POOR decisions,Even in Jest,Is Laughable…
kris
January 16, 2013 at 2:47 pm
Not everyone who’s homeless deserves their situation. Regardless, how is a homeless person supposed to pay a ten thousand dollar fine? Way to go, Vancouver. Definitely thought that one through. Ps. Your all a bunch selfish $$$ hungry morons!
bob richards
January 16, 2013 at 2:59 pm
currently they spend 15 days in jail. when the fine is increased so will that jail time. all part of the new canadian/amercian jail madel.
Lisa Dahling
January 16, 2013 at 3:15 pm
Unbelievable – draconian, or should I say Dickensian? Back to the workhouses?
Danny P
January 16, 2013 at 3:31 pm
Drugs have done wonders for your writing abilities.
Natalie
January 16, 2013 at 4:04 pm
What he said.
DS
January 16, 2013 at 5:10 pm
Leaving angry comments on a website doesn’t change minds.
Kimberly
January 16, 2013 at 5:31 pm
“For if you suffer your people to be ill-educated, and their manners to be corrupted from their infancy, and then punish them for those crimes to which their first education disposed them, what else is to be concluded from this, but that you first make thieves and then punish them.”
― Thomas More, Utopia
GDS
January 16, 2013 at 6:37 pm
well said…time to get out and make your point in public
Kootenay Coyote
January 16, 2013 at 7:28 pm
This is simply plain evil. Crush them down & kick them when they try to clamber back up. Remember 1789.
okjacko
January 16, 2013 at 9:45 pm
“The prison industry complex is one of the fastest growing industries in the USA and its investors are on Wall Street. This multimillion-dollar industry has its own trade exhibitions, conventions, websites, and mail-order/internet catalogs. It also has direct advertising campaigns, architecture companies, investment houses on Wall Street, plumbing supply companies, food supply companies, armed security, and padded cells in a large variety of colours.” Hmmmmmm only a hapless dupe could not see this new Vancouver law as an incentive to bulk up Canadian prisons! The homeless are seen as capital for corporate tycoons and investors. Profiting off of homelessness. Sick! It’s sad really that the council members have very little regard for the level of intelligence of Vancouver citizens – to think that they could release such absurdities and that the general population would be in accord is an insult…I have more faith in Vancouverites to think of, fight for, and implement better solutions. It’s time to revolutionise city councils and to stop emulating American policies.
Laura Chalfin
January 16, 2013 at 9:57 pm
Next: Debtors’ prison!
Lord Voldemort
January 16, 2013 at 11:10 pm
This is fucking disgusting and yet another reason, why I hate humanity and wish for our extinction and we’ll do that soon enough. I welcome the horrible future in store for this world.. I’ll laugh as everyone scatters screaming, and crying through the chaos wondering why the world is burning.
Lord Voldemort
January 16, 2013 at 11:17 pm
Your and idiot.. not every homeless person is a drug addicted alcoholic whore, maybe they lost there job and unemployment ran out. There are hundreds of reasons why, they are left homeless do you think they enjoy it? True some chose there own paths, but your ideology is fucking retarded.
Let the whole city burn it’s all talk, talk, talk, and no action.
cguygo
January 17, 2013 at 12:54 am
I’m pretty sure smoking bud leads to love and compassion. These people must be on Cocaine and steroids.
okjacko
January 17, 2013 at 6:42 am
yeah and will start targeting marijuana too
Blak
January 17, 2013 at 6:45 am
It may help someone who read this article to get riled up enough to go out into the city and do something. That’s what fanned the flame in Egypt and Libya. It also might help those of us who were enraged by this article to blow off steam, collaborate with others, and get a group together to fight this outside of cyberspace.
dk wicked
January 17, 2013 at 9:21 am
Were shall i start, i used to be homeless and live in stanley park and was a really bad drug addict that couldnt get into a rehab anywhere cause they all full. So with the love of some people, me and my wife went out to there place and began our recovery. 5 yrs later i am still thankful to those people, i live in a 3 bedroom townhouse and have two wounderful kids. But trying to fine or shut down the streets is only cause for rebellion, we have the right to live just as much as you do, most of you dont realize is we dont want to be there by choice, usually its a mental dease, or HIV, add, and a bunch more medical shit that puts usout there. we all want to be like you, money and no worries but that dont happen cause were mentally not functionable like these people makin the laws or all comfy in there big chair, u guys are idiots. you only thinka bout the now, realize this, its only gonna get worse, the population of this planet is growin which only means more homeless, why so much in Vancouver, lets just check the weather, its usually sunny or rainin, well no forty below and snow, shit lets all move to Vancouver were its beautiful all year around and we can live on the streets. thats the part the government doesnt understand, no matter what laws you make there will always be homeless and its gonna get way worse, so buck up.
Valerie Thomas
January 17, 2013 at 9:26 am
Well now, that really makes sense. NOT! No wonder our prisons are so overcrowded. They are needlessly being filled with these people incapable of paying their fines, instead of just the real criminals. When you factor in the costs of keeping them in the prison it would be far more economical to build low-income housing so they don’t need to be homeless. Also, try looking at changing some of these by-laws. It seems to me that some of them are impossible for these people to comply with, which in turn makes the enforcement of them the actions of a bully. Seems to me that we are trying to teach our children to say no to bullying,but then they are witness to stories like this, giving the council members of Vancouver the appearance of being both bullies and hypocrites.
Sorry everybody. I work hard at not lowering myself to name calling and such but, when I read a story like this, it is just too difficult. I do refrain from saying some of the words I do think though because I do still know how to play nice.
I am sure if the council members took the time to meet with the operators of the shelters they would be able to find a solution to this problem. I still like to think they do care about these people and the unfortunate situation they have found themselves in.
Ace
January 17, 2013 at 10:14 am
Well. That will totally convince people to stop being homeless.
Gerry McGuire
January 17, 2013 at 10:46 am
Or all of the above?
Gerry McGuire
January 17, 2013 at 10:47 am
Believe it or not, this council is out of touch with reality…
Gerry McGuire (@GTMcG)
January 17, 2013 at 10:52 am
Drivers license? That’s what bike lanes are for! By the time they’re finished subsidizing bike-share they will have spent $30 million+ on bike-lanes/greenways and subsidizing their bike-business cronies.
PDXSteve
January 17, 2013 at 10:56 am
EVERYONE in the community should be outraged by this. If you can’t pay your rent for one month, due to anything, you get a $10,000.00 fine? GET MAD. Pass a law that charges lawmakers $10,000.00 for passing laws. Like there aren’t already enough, when something like THIS is about to go on the books.
SaRaH CheSTeRman (@PLaneTSEdge)
January 17, 2013 at 11:13 am
If this doesn’t tell Vancouverites their (our) city is being grossly mismanaged by a deadbeat, lazy bunch of corrupt sell-outs i don’t know what will…
Time to CAN VISION 4 not delivering – well we hired em didn’t we? (or don’t our schools even teach how to be involved in one’s own democracy?) Based on what – great presentation & nice-sounding promises, none of which are panning out? EG. Vancouver going “green”/ sustainable? Haha – this city is so far from sustainable… Unless you’re brainwashed into thinking chopping down whole parks full of old-growth centuries-old trees, i.e. ‘Marine Gateway’, counts (hint: it doesn’t). Or demolishing/excavating whole lots and carting all contents to the landfill (that doesn’t either)… i could go on but guess what? There’s a conference in town this week on ENBRIDGE PIPELINE, whereby our own country’s Prime Minister wants to put this province’s clean water/ sustainability/ west coast at risk sending dirty (tar-sands) oil to China… Which means EVERYONE ought to be @ Wall Street voicing their opposition to our corrupt FEDERAL government, and we can’t be everywhere at once…
Where’s the solidarity, people? Well, ‘IdleNoMore’ is a start – look it up, and let’s get our city/province/country operating sustainably. As humans we still depend on Mother Nature to sustain US – and we’ve been treating her rather badly for the past, oh, couple hundred years. And it’s clear we can’t rely on our governments to look out for us…
G
January 17, 2013 at 11:15 am
Bingo. Surplus population. More tax dollars for cops and private prison-industrial complexes, and whoever’s left outside gets a world that looks perfect and spotless so they can keep telling themselves there’s nothing wrong: “Of course I deserve this perfect wonderland. Everyone has these opportunities. Look at all the happy wealthy people around me. I never see homeless people!”
SaRaH CheSTeRman (@PLaneTSEdge)
January 17, 2013 at 11:44 am
LV, Lorna did not say EVERY homeless person is a drug addicted alcoholic whore, proposes helping the homeless AND opposes the ridiculous fine. Yet your invaluable input is to call this person “and idiot” and suggesting “let the whole city burn”?
All talk no action? Talk can turn into action if people want to respect each other and work together finding solutions – but not if hindered by inflammatory histrionics/name-calling/rudeness etc. (for starters)…
Cmon man – grow up. We’ve got a lotta work to do, no time for spoiled-baby tantrums!
Huge not
January 17, 2013 at 12:29 pm
It’s about a dumb as it gets. Fine the heck out of people with nothing. Have they done the math?
Lynn Oster
January 17, 2013 at 2:11 pm
I’m sure it would be completely different if it was “your store front” that was defecated in on a regular basis. Have any of you hypocrites even helped the homeless in the slightest, donating to a private organization that is willing to make a difference? Is it the developers or governments job to invite homeless people from all over to come and chase away the general public and devalue our neighborhoods, There are cheaper places to live. Should the good people of say Prince George or Williams Lake demand city council falsely lower their real estae prices so we too can live there as cheap?
Dinoysius101
January 17, 2013 at 2:23 pm
If that happens, the gov should be the first to go!
Dinoysius101
January 17, 2013 at 3:58 pm
Vancouver has a problem with homeless people.
Solution: Fines $2000.00; FAILED
Solution2: Fines $10,000.00; PREDICTED FAILURE
Solution3: Fines $5,000,000,000; I am sure that will work right? NOT!
I believe they know this will not work to stop them. So in actuality, it is their goal to make it work in two subsequent ways.
1) Jailing these people gets them out of sight, out of mind.
2) Forcing them out of the City through intimidation, emasculation, destitution.
“Cost to Jail over and over? VS Cost to House and educate?” Hmmm?
OK, So if Alcoholics and Drug Addicts, as deemed by the Jellinek curve,
are looked at as physiological diseases, why not homelessness? I admit, for some they may not fall into this category but currently several/most do. By abusing this segment of society further, it either exasperates the problems into other categories including escalation criminal behavior (provocation) or pushes them out to another community where it is more permissible (relocation to dump responsibility). I would guess the percentage is miniscule, if any at all, actually magically gain the insight to cure themselves.
Alas; These counselors need to learn empathy, ethics and get advise from social and physiological services before making such eccentric decisions; if not for the public, then for themselves.
I am disabled and grow tired quickly, what would happen if I had stopped to rest, nodded off and became a victim of this outlandish law? This would unnecessarily force destitution upon me and victimize me for being disabled.
Priscilla Judd
January 17, 2013 at 9:28 pm
I was looking at landscape Art when I stumbled on this piece called Caseros Prison it’s a demolition Art Project. …an estimated 30,000 people, “Desaparecidos” were disappeared between 1976 and 1981 by the military junta http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caseros_Prison_Demolition_Project I don’t know if it’s relevant but it looks like it’s possible to design prisons that house thousands of people. In the US, imprisoned people have become slaves to several corporate industries like car part manufacturing … Great to see people standing on guard for Canada when governments don’t.
mike
January 17, 2013 at 11:30 pm
good one
mike
January 17, 2013 at 11:31 pm
how about grants so they can pay the fines ?
mike/hoot
January 17, 2013 at 11:38 pm
not really , they are just putting the ball in the province/feds court – where it should be for most of them who have mental problems , the others panhandlers who know what they are doing live in nice houses and just ‘play’ on peoples good nature for some free money.
David Cooper
January 17, 2013 at 11:58 pm
That approach won,t work, These homeless people need to have some hope of a better life, there is a way, they need to get out of that box they are in, go to a farm and learn to survive, an do things for themselves. These problems are the same ones, that have lasted for decades. Time to get rid of the red tape and make some moves, to show the homeless people get a better life. When they get better lives and feel good about themselves they will help others. you will get rid of some of the other crap that goes on, when the people feel better about themselves, Thank-you those are my thoughts.
Russell
January 18, 2013 at 1:53 am
Democracy time: start a petition demanding the resignation of everyone responsible for this.
Anonymous
January 18, 2013 at 3:49 am
This is repulsive and disgusting. They want to enforce the bylaws when police themselves are breakers of laws. Selling used items is not a crime either. It is our choice and it is at our free will that we chose to do so. Yes being put in Jail is warmth food and shelter, but what about when they get out? Will all the stuff that they’ve gathered be gone? It will probably have been stolen. Thus leaving them with even less not to mention the ridiculous fine that they have to pay. They will be forced into a situation where they will have to rob and attack others to stay alive. We need more funding for rehabilitation not suppression.
Steve Cumming
January 18, 2013 at 5:41 am
yes, the vast power of the real estate magnates, and the criminal gangs controlling the ports pales before the tyrranical might of the bicycle shops. God forbid that bicycle commuters should be able to get across town without being squished. You’re deusional.
Chelanna White
January 18, 2013 at 8:15 am
You’re actually quoting from “Ever After”, aren’t you?!
Donna Martin
January 18, 2013 at 10:51 am
Another link in the NWO plan..explains the need for all those new prisons coming soon to a city near you. Re-read Dickens! the work houses. Absolutely ridiculous. Instead of wasting money trying to police this build low cost housing!
W. Roe
January 18, 2013 at 11:29 am
This is Pathetic! They should be looking to the root cause of the problem & investing in that. The Politicians should be accountable for the problems in their community, instead of blindly making impossible bylaws. Pffffft
dave
January 18, 2013 at 12:28 pm
Sadly this is what happens when new prisons are privatized and need occupants.
Ladymam
January 18, 2013 at 12:52 pm
Read the article ‘Public Outrage’ under LATEST at bottom of this page.
nova ritchie
January 18, 2013 at 2:24 pm
Vancouver should be ashamed to put their name on something like this. It makes no sense to fine these people, who obviously, if they had 10K, would have a room somewhere, and putting them in jail solves nothing. Put your pedofiles away for vancouver is full of them. I am ashamed to say that I am canadian now. This is simply ridiculous. Make some resonable places to live and give the poor a home, not a fine. Stupid fucking politicians. I hate each and every one of them.
Peter
January 18, 2013 at 5:30 pm
They are obviously not earning their pay.
Roger Starring
January 18, 2013 at 5:47 pm
You restore my faith in Canadians (a little).
Rick Hiltz
January 19, 2013 at 7:49 am
Nice to see some of you standing up against the over reaching of Council . Remember they are incorporated you are not an employee the laws council pass are only applicable to their employee`s
Camille Christie
January 19, 2013 at 8:00 am
Important to note Roger, it’s NOT Canadians, it’s the govt, which holds true of many countries, it’s not their citizens, it’s the fucking politicians and lobbyist who are the problem. We in the USA are besieged by corrupt fucktards who say the right things to get elected, then turn to the dark side and screw us all, regardless of how much we protest.
I no longer hold a coutry’s citizens responsible when it’s clear it’s the govts that are the problem… most are in bed with the Illuminati in one way or another, it’s disgusting and it must end.
Countries with corrupt govt need to emulate Iceland. They did it, arrested every corrupt baker and politician and jailed their asses. Of course the rest of the world didn’t hear much about that because main stream media is owned and run by the corrupt who wouldn’t want us to get wind of something so drastic it could result in other countries following suit. AND THEY SHOULD!!!
Get involved people… the more we speak up and about unjustices, the more we wake others up and the clearer our message.
Corrupt govt of the world take notice!!!
WE’RE FED UP AND WE’RE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!
Norah
January 19, 2013 at 3:35 pm
EMAIL THEM! tell them how disgusted you are.
I did, I tore a STRIP right off of them.
mayorandcouncil@vancouver.ca
Jay Lau
January 19, 2013 at 4:43 pm
Well said.
cailemichelle
January 19, 2013 at 6:46 pm
DOES ANYONE ELSE WANT TO MARCH TO CITY HALL TO PROTEST THIS WITH ME? Let’s PROTEST. Let’s FIGHT this. Are we human beings really going to stand by and do NOTHING, knowing FULL-WELL that there are capitalist SWINE treating individuals like pieces of unwanted TRASH?
These people need HELP, they need to be FIXED, not broken further.
I WILL NOT ALLOW THIS!!!!
I AM TAKING A FUCKING STAND.
WHO IS WITH ME?!?!?!?
Maureen E Gardiner
January 21, 2013 at 12:35 pm
Wow-welcome to the smallest minded city on the planet. I sincerely hope that assessment is incorrect and the people who can, will stand up and stop this ugliness
tego
January 23, 2013 at 11:33 am
Wow this city takes poor-bashing to another level.
I highly doubt anyone in the DTES has $10,000 to spare when charged with this ridiculously corrupt law. They’ll likely end up spending a few weeks in prison. Not a dignifying prospect.
Our lawmakers (and those who feed them greenbacks) should be held accountable for this act of blatant classism and racism.
Jef Keighley
January 29, 2013 at 1:44 pm
Wow! I’m surprised Vision’s homeless strategy is so modest! Why not raise the fines to a million dollars or maybe ten million dollars. Then Vision could pump all the collected fine monies into providing homes for the homeless. The logic is, dare I say it, brilliant! While they’re at it, perhaps Vision could adopt a new motto ‘Let them eat cake!’ Naw, that’s been used before.
Justice Joe Ruthless
January 30, 2013 at 3:43 am
Wow thats a lot of bottles 10G worth, wonder what that looks like. This issue is now on my radar. How quick they are to forget Occupy started here, This is the kind of stuff that will give me more power as they piss people off.
Kristine Parrish
May 7, 2013 at 10:40 pm
WTF? kinda of stupidity rodeo is this?
How’s about this for law, every-time a Politician or Government employee gets caught red handed or does something like this kinda of out of the box thinking to fellow Canadians.
We, the people are allowed to put a bullet in the back of their head…… Simple…No jury ,No trail.Why waste more tax dollars?
Yup sounds good, can I get a motion to carry? everyone in agreement say I. Motion carried, start the slaughter ;)
Get the F’k outta here, ya F’Kn ridicules eggheads! Yup another proud day in CANADIAN HISTORY from are elite intellectuals.
Jack Williams
May 27, 2014 at 2:26 pm
As mentioned several times in the comment section. It doesn’t matter what the fine is because homeless people would always be unable to pay it making the fine irrelevant. Why is increasing the fine such a big deal?
If the issue is that society has to respect the rights of homeless people to live on some of the most coveted real estate in the world I would disagree with the assertion that the homeless population has that right.
While some of the population has been living in the area for their whole life and could justly claim that it is their home their are those who are new to the area and cannot make that claim.
Why is it society’s responsibility to support new low income housing downtown Vancouver? Wouldn’t it be more cost effective and better for society at large to support low income housing where the real estate is low cost?
This would lower societies burden allowing more money to be allocated to schools and addiction prevention programmes.
Mgray@hotmail.com
May 28, 2014 at 3:26 am
No payment equals jail time gets them out of sight and mind even though it de humanizing I’m poor so no be default I guess I’m a fri all too repulsive
Joanne
May 28, 2014 at 8:21 am
Well the fine is ridiculous and the big deal is that it will cost money to enforce this law (police), then there’s the court’s time and again that cost money for courts and free lawyers, and probably would clog the courts right up. Then there is housing and feeding all the homeless again that cost money and will clog up jails (how long does one stay in jail for not paying a 10 000$ fine) and then you let them all out when their jail time has paid for the fine only to arrest them again for being homeless and the process goes round and round. Cut the crap, get affordable housing, that way they can have a roof over their heads and maybe get a job and their own food. A lot cheaper.
Jase
May 28, 2014 at 11:26 am
Good call, let’s say a homeless person gets a job and gets a house, finally get on their feet. OHH WAIT you owe 10k. Great idea fuckwads
Shevz
May 28, 2014 at 9:24 pm
Honestly, I don’t see why people are making such a big deal about this. I respect everyones opinion. However, acting on this will send a message that drug use/ spending time on the street is not okay or acceptable. Most of these individuals get arrested, go through the criminal/medical systems, and get released and continue in cycles. Which we pay for with our taxes. This will force some to change their life or move somewhere else. Simple.
Paul Margetts
May 28, 2014 at 10:22 pm
What minds?
Concerned
May 28, 2014 at 10:33 pm
Wow, lets just lock them all up. Waaay cheaper than affordable housing. Or better yet lets privatize the prisons so these politrickcians can get a kick back from their puppetmasters. Dickensian indeed!
Steve Jay
May 28, 2014 at 11:31 pm
should just give them all free heroin R.I.P.
dionne lemay
May 29, 2014 at 2:50 am
the prisons are for criminals, not the homeless. I was beaten with a bat on the head 350 plus stiches in home invasion in Prince George. We went to court they were druggies from Vancouver. The judge let them go because they were females, I was told the prisons were to full . Some of the homeless can’t get jobs because they are homeless, they don’t have washer & dryer or shower. Give them housing first rather than putting them in jail ,where we tax payers have to pay to support them. Some are elderly or mental patients, who we should be taking care of in the first place. I use to be proud to be Canadian, but no longer I am ashamed of you Vancouver
billy bob
May 29, 2014 at 10:21 am
Very few people in the DTES want ‘rehabilitation’. There are already so many programs in place that feed and house the people living down there that they have very little motivation to rehabilitate. Why would they choose to change when they can get multiple hot meals for free each day and have a place to sleep for free too?
JZ
May 29, 2014 at 12:25 pm
I would really like to see an article or hear about the government doing something to help people. It seems like all they do is take away things or infringe on someone’s rights. These are still people and they deserve rights, not to be punished for their circumstance.
Anonymous
May 29, 2014 at 6:16 pm
Lol first off all this is one of the richest provinces around. Second of all homeless people don’t have money, if they did they wouldn’t be homeless, third of all its the governments fault we even have homelessness because they shut down all of the facilities for the homeless people to go so theres know where else but the streets. The irony of it all.Like why don’t they just have a genocide then and kill them all? That would end the slow suffering of their already intolerably hard existence’s. Thats pretty much what they are doing just making it sound prettier for the public to read. I am ashamed to live in such a rich province and have this shit going on. Makes me so angry they aren’t treated as human beings.
Jeremy
May 29, 2014 at 6:51 pm
Wow like giving someone a 10k fine is gonna give them a chance at getting a job and a place to live, especially after they don’t pay it, go to jail and get a criminal record. Yeah good to go Government, I mean mafia, creating more homeless people lol. What about the people that are living in an apartment, working, paying rent yet can’t afford food? One little mistake they miss a month of rent and bam 10k fine.
Quit being so ignorant and think about these people, some don’t have a choice whether or not they get to live inside.
What if someone who has narcolepsy falls asleep on the side of the road and forgets their id or doesn’t have anything to prove their address, 10000 dollar fine?
Susan Rankin
May 30, 2014 at 6:50 am
Their homes should be confiscated and they should be fined $100,000.00 for demonstrably evil intentions.
E.Wells
May 30, 2014 at 3:31 pm
We will be the laughing stock of the rest of Canada.Harper just gave billions of dollars for aid overseas and our Vancouver politicians want to fine the homeless .How absurd
mary
May 31, 2014 at 8:14 am
look i have lived on the streets of van for 20 years if not more y wood you do that we need some ware to go and not having a place to go is not fun and to give a street kid or adult they wood never pay that they are tiring to mack end meet can you give them what they need to survive they sale stuff to sport them so are you going to give them money to get off the streets and give them a home to live in and the 10,000 for a low income you are not going to get it i think it is stupid good luck on it
Vancouverite
May 31, 2014 at 10:19 pm
BC alone spends $644 million on services for the homeless every year which works out to about $55,000 per homeless person. A few studies have been done in the last 3 years across Canada on the links between homelessness, drug abuse, and mental illness. The Vancouver report has 93% of homeless individuals have a mental health disorder and 50% spend $100+ on drugs per day. $100+ per day!! It’s difficult to use logic on why you would rather sleep on the streets and spend your money on drugs rather than on housing and food. For most of us that makes no sense but then again neither does imposing $10,000 fines on people you will never get money from to pay those fines. By the the end of the day whatever amount they have, they go get their fix, so as soon as the money comes in it goes right back out. How would you ever intercept that…do pat downs of all the homeless people to pay their fines. I agree with the above, I don’t know what the council is thinking making this fine but it certainly won’t solve anything. It makes Vancouver look like we are trying to get rid of anyone middle class and down. Sad.
The housing first study does show significant improvement in many of the individuals that were given mental health treatment and housing. All of the issues surrounding the homeless are complex; mental health disorders, drug abuse. Canada’s metal health system has to be rebuilt which will take time.
What happens if you solve a big issue like homelessness in Vancouver though? You won’t need all of those addictions service workers, health care aids, police officers, paramedics, corrections officers etc. Something like 1/3 of all the emergency situations in ERs and ambulance responses are for mental health and intravenous drug issues. I’m not sure all the politicians out there want the homelessness issue to be solved. That’s a big hole in the economy to lose all of those jobs.
kat
June 1, 2014 at 7:14 am
Camille, that was perfectly said!
liberalworkingclassvancouverite
June 2, 2014 at 10:55 pm
Um, have you met anyone on the street in Vancouver? “getting a job”?? I don’t think so.
Anon
June 3, 2014 at 9:49 am
So your saying working is mandatory, we are forced to be in servitude in Canada ?Slavery in all forms was not abolished as i see..
Keith Kennedy
June 3, 2014 at 10:36 am
……………
Evil is in the works,,,,and the sheeple will do as they are told.
The ignorant masses will look the other way, when the homeless (undesirables) are bussed off to the Concentration Camps.
Stay in denial if you want……It will happen.
.
Keith Kennedy
June 3, 2014 at 10:38 am
…………
Wow!!…..You have “jobs” in Vancouver???…That’s amazing.
.
Keith Kennedy
June 3, 2014 at 10:41 am
……….
New Wealth:
……The Prison Industry
.
Keith Kennedy
June 3, 2014 at 10:57 am
………..
If you understand Human Nature,,,,,you will understand why people will look the other way, when the “undesirables” are bussed away to the remote concentration camps.
Human Beings are 100% about self preservation and only get involved when it is most convenient to do so.
.
Kenneth McGrath
June 3, 2014 at 11:01 am
This reminds me of that joke by Louis C.K. about how the bank with charge you $25 for having a balance below $20, then lend your money to someone who doesn’t really need it. The story would be funny if it weren’t so tragic and, frankly, I hope the people of Vancouver step up in protest.
How about housing for the homeless? How about harm reduction programming? How about work programming?
How about compassion?
Pete
June 3, 2014 at 9:06 pm
Very surprising stance from you Canadians to pick on the poor and desperate.
Complete and utter stupidity to think that a homeless person can raise a $10,000.
They must be running another sequel to planet of the apes up north in Canada or something like that.
There seems to be some very heartless and nasty Canadians around for them to come up with a scheme like this.
Very disappointed in the Canadians to say the least.
liberalworkingclassvancouverite
June 4, 2014 at 1:11 am
So, someone says give them all heroin and let them die and their comment stays up but my comment about no responsibilities, no accountabilities and no consequence and getting on transit for free is taken down. Glad to see this is an open forum. Nobody representing the poor and/or homeless like to hear any opinion other than their own.
Terry Lee Wagar
June 6, 2014 at 12:56 pm
Wow..free meals at a soup kitchen and a fee bed a homeless shelter! It sounds great! I’m quitting my jobs right away, so I can take advantage of this glorious opportunity to retire in luxury!! Which is the best shelter, billy bob? I assume you must have already moved into one, since you think they are so great..
Alison Duncan
June 10, 2014 at 3:47 am
Criminalization of the poor and the mentally ill.
Jail time for being poor, how incredibly stupid and heartless are we as a society.
Remember the politicians who thought up this evil plan.
Alison Duncan
June 10, 2014 at 3:55 am
No where for our homeless to sleep out of the elements, but we do this… http://aplus.com/a/unsold-cars-parked-as-trash
Humans are disgusting.
Alison Duncan
June 10, 2014 at 4:20 am
Criminalizing poverty and mental illness by fining and jailing people for being homeless.
Our govt has lost the plot. They forget they serve ALL the people not just the 1%.
Underfund education and threaten punative fines if teachers try to negotiate.
They away Special education assistants from mentally challenged children leaving them unhelped and therefore less able to achieve their maximum potential. Thereby putting them at greater risk of becoming one of the criminalized poor.
Underfund healthcare so people suffer in hallways getting substandard care, recover slower and suffer greater risk becoming jobless>homeless>fined>incarcerated.
Our govt is EVIL.
Remember next election day what this govt does to the disadvantaged.